Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/06/2000 02:30 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                   March 6, 2000                                                                                                
                     2:30 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pete Kott, Chairman                                                                                              
Representative Joe Green                                                                                                        
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Eric Croft                                                                                                       
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Jeannette James                                                                                                  
Representative Lisa Murkowski                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 357                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the redemption of shares of certain Alaska                                                                  
corporations."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 357 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 378                                                                                                              
"An Act eliminating certain taxes under AS 21.09 on premiums from                                                               
the sale of workers' compensation insurance; relating to the                                                                    
establishment, assessment, collection, and accounting for service                                                               
fees for state administration of workers' compensation and worker                                                               
safety programs; establishing civil penalties and sanctions for                                                                 
late payment or nonpayment of the service fee; and providing for an                                                             
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 378(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 284                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to uninsured and underinsured motor vehicle                                                                    
insurance."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 284(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 372                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to criminal sentencing and restitution."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 35                                                                                                   
Relating to requesting the United States Congress to repeal the                                                                 
"Brady Handgun Protection Act".                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 357                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: REDEMPTION OF CORPORATE SHARES                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/09/00      2147     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 2/09/00      2147     (H)  L&C, JUD                                                                                            
 2/25/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 2/25/00               (H)  Moved Out of Committee                                                                              
 2/25/00               (H)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 2/28/00      2329     (H)  L&C RPT 5DP                                                                                         
 2/28/00      2330     (H)  DP: MURKOWSKI, HARRIS, CISSNA,                                                                      
                            HALCRO,                                                                                             
 2/28/00      2330     (H)  ROKEBERG                                                                                            
 2/28/00      2330     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED)                                                                             
 3/06/00               (H)  JUD AT  2:15 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 378                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: WORKERS COMP AND WORKER SAFETY                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/16/00      2211     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 2/16/00      2212     (H)  L&C, JUD, FIN                                                                                       
 2/16/00      2212     (H)  4 FISCAL NOTES (ADM, DCED, 2-LABOR)                                                                 
 2/16/00      2212     (H)  GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                                                                       
 2/28/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 2/28/00               (H)  Heard & Held                                                                                        
 2/28/00               (H)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 3/03/00               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
 3/03/00               (H)  <Bill Postponed to 3/6>                                                                             
 3/03/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 3/03/00               (H)  Moved CSHB 378(L&C) Out of Committee                                                                
 3/03/00               (H)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 3/06/00               (H)  JUD AT  2:15 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL:  HB 284                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: UNINSURED MOTOR VEHICLE INSURANCE                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 1/12/00      1906     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 1/12/00      1907     (H)  L&C, JUD                                                                                            
 2/18/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 2/18/00               (H)  Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                             
 2/21/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 2/21/00               (H)  Moved CSHB 284(L&C) Out of Committee                                                                
 2/21/00               (H)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 2/23/00      2269     (H)  L&C RPT CS(L&C) 1DP 5NR                                                                             
 2/23/00      2270     (H)  DP: HARRIS; NR: MURKOWSKI, CISSNA,                                                                  
 2/23/00      2270     (H)  BRICE, SANDERS, ROKEBERG                                                                            
 2/23/00      2270     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED)                                                                             
 3/03/00               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
 3/03/00               (H)  Heard & Held                                                                                        
 3/03/00               (H)  MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                         
 3/06/00               (H)  JUD AT  2:15 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 372                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: COMMUNITY BASED SENTENCING                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/11/00      2184     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 2/11/00      2184     (H)  JUD, FIN                                                                                            
 2/11/00      2184     (H)  REFERRED TO JUDICIARY                                                                               
 3/06/00               (H)  JUD AT  2:15 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HJR 35                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: REPEAL BRADY ACT                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 3/31/99       624     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 3/31/99       624     (H)  WTR, JUD                                                                                            
 5/18/99      1638     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): KOHRING                                                                               
 1/26/00      2018     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS                                                                               
 2/15/00               (H)  WTR AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 2/15/00               (H)  -- Meeting Postponed to 2/22/00 --                                                                  
 2/22/00               (H)  WTR AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 2/22/00               (H)  Moved Out of Committee                                                                              
 2/22/00               (H)  MINUTE(WTR)                                                                                         
 2/23/00      2275     (H)  WTR RPT  4DP 2NR                                                                                    
 2/23/00      2276     (H)  DP: MASEK, GREEN, BARNES, COWDERY;                                                                  
 2/23/00      2276     (H)  NR: PHILLIPS, JOULE                                                                                 
 2/23/00      2276     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (H.WTR)                                                                            
 2/23/00      2276     (H)  REFERRED TO JUDICIARY                                                                               
 2/23/00      2288     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): MASEK                                                                                 
 3/06/00               (H)  JUD AT  2:15 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SHAN HAN, Staff                                                                                                                 
   to Representative Lisa Murkowski                                                                                             
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 406                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 357 on behalf of the sponsor.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TERRY ELDER, Director                                                                                                           
Division of Banking, Securities & Corporations                                                                                  
Department of Community & Economic Development                                                                                  
P.O. Box 110807                                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0807                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Identified HB 357 as a policy question.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JULIUS BRECHT, Attorney and Managing Shareholder                                                                                
Wohlforth, Vassar, Johnson & Brecht                                                                                             
900 West Fifth Avenue, Suite 600                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 357 that the Alaska                                                                        
Corporations Code is in need of amendment to recognize the needs of                                                             
modern corporations, while retaining shareholder protection as                                                                  
already adopted in other states.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JOHN LOWBER, Chief Financial Officer                                                                                            
General Communication Incorporated (GCI)                                                                                        
(Address not provided)                                                                                                          
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified that passage of HB 357 would                                                                     
encourage businesses to continue to incorporate in Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DAVID TAYLOR, Chief Financial Officer                                                                                           
Brady & Company, Inc.                                                                                                           
1031 West 4th Avenue, Suite 400                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska  99510-7502                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 357.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PAUL GROSSI, Director                                                                                                           
Division of Workers' Compensation                                                                                               
Department of Labor & Workforce Development                                                                                     
P.O. Box 25512                                                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska  99802-5512                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 378 on behalf of the Governor.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA HUFF TUCKNESS, Director                                                                                                 
Governmental and Legislative Affairs                                                                                            
General Teamsters Local 959 State of Alaska                                                                                     
520 East 34th Avenue                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of concept of HB 378,                                                                 
which will level the playing field and encourage safer conditions.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DON ETHERIDGE, JR., Lobbyist                                                                                                    
   for Alaska State AFL-CIO                                                                                                     
710 9th Street                                                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 378.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN RITCHIE, Executive Director                                                                                               
Alaska Municipal League                                                                                                         
217 2nd Street, Suite 200                                                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified that the Alaska Municipal League                                                                 
doesn't have a problem with many of the concepts of CSHB 378(L&C),                                                              
but pointed out that anytime costs rise in municipal governments,                                                               
that gets passed on to the people in the community.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
LEANDRA ESTEP, Workers' Compensation Claims Manager                                                                             
Alaska Municipal League Joint Insurance Association, Inc.                                                                       
807 G Street, Suite 356                                                                                                         
Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified that changes made in CSHB 378(L&C)                                                               
clearly address the subrogation but not necessarily the                                                                         
reinsurance.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 104                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 372.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
PETER TORKELSON, Staff                                                                                                          
   to Representative Fred Dyson                                                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 104                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding HB 372.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ANNE CARPENETI, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                      
Criminal Division                                                                                                               
Department of Law                                                                                                               
P.O. Box 110300                                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99811                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified that HB 372 contains good ideas and                                                              
thoughts but the department has serious problems with it; offered                                                               
to work with sponsor towards finding common ground.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BLAIR McCUNE, Deputy Director                                                                                                   
Public Defender Agency                                                                                                          
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
900 West 5th Avenue, Number 200                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska  99501-2090                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of the concept of HB 372;                                                               
cautioned that if done as a sentencing tool, this would have a                                                                  
fairly high impact on his agency although he does not know what the                                                             
fiscal impact would be; noted that this is used as a pretrial                                                                   
diversion or diversion agreement in the juvenile system.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
RYNNIEVA MOSS, Staff                                                                                                            
  to Representative John Coghill                                                                                                
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 416                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HJR 35 on behalf of sponsor.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-28, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN PETE KOTT called the House Judiciary Standing Committee                                                                
meeting to order at 2:30 p.m.  Members present at the call to order                                                             
were Representatives Kott, Green, Rokeberg and Croft.                                                                           
Representative Kerttula arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HB 357 - REDEMPTION OF CORPORATE SHARES                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced that the first order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO. 357, "An Act relating to the redemption of shares of                                                             
certain Alaska corporations."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0135                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SHAN HAN, Staff to Representative Lisa Murkowski, Alaska State                                                                  
Legislature, testified on behalf of the sponsor.  He explained that                                                             
HB 357 allows Alaskan corporations to issue preferred shares that                                                               
are redeemable at the discretion of the shareholder.  Basically,                                                                
this provides Alaskan corporations with another method of raising                                                               
funds.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0215                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TERRY ELDER, Director, Division of Banking, Securities &                                                                        
Corporations, Department of Community & Economic Development                                                                    
(DCED), pointed out that the division has submitted a zero fiscal                                                               
note.  The bill would have no impact on the filing requirements of                                                              
corporations.  He views HB 357 as a policy question with regard to                                                              
whether one would want to remove the current restriction from the                                                               
issuance of shares that are redeemable at the option of the                                                                     
shareholder versus the option of the corporation.  He noted that                                                                
the division has reviewed HB 357 and aspects of Title 10, which                                                                 
provides other shareholder protection against redemptions that                                                                  
would cause a company to have a financial problem.  The division                                                                
believes that there is ample security for shareholders in other                                                                 
sections of Title 10.  Therefore, there is no objection to this.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. ELDER acknowledged that other states, such as California, have                                                              
moved in this direction.  It has been mentioned that Alaska's                                                                   
statute is based on California's statute, which has changed, and                                                                
thus HB 357 would adopt the change that California has.  With                                                                   
regard to corporations, this would be allowed rather than required;                                                             
corporations would only use this option if the corporation saw it                                                               
as in their best interest in negotiating with purchasers of these                                                               
securities.  Typically, there would be trade-offs between the price                                                             
obtained for the security versus various options such as redemption                                                             
options.  Mr. Elder said that the division cannot think of any                                                                  
particular public policy reason to prevent this option from being                                                               
available to corporations.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0381                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN requested clarification.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. ELDER said this [HB 357] would essentially allow the                                                                        
corporation to redeem the shares and thus the corporation would buy                                                             
them back.  In this case, it [the buy-back] would be at the option                                                              
- with the various terms already negotiated - of the holder.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN inquired as to whether it would be at the                                                                  
issued value or some floated value.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. ELDER answered that it would be at whatever schedule the issuer                                                             
determines at the time of issuance.  Currently, this is true for                                                                
convertible securities and other securities that have sinking                                                                   
funds, for example.  These are preset prices that ordinarily have                                                               
no relation to current market values.  In response to a question by                                                             
Representative Green, he clarified that one would not necessarily                                                               
get it back at the value for which it was purchased; that would be                                                              
dependent upon the schedule.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0542                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JULIUS BRECHT, Attorney and Managing Shareholder, Wohlforth,                                                                    
Vassar, Johnson & Brecht, testified via teleconference.  He                                                                     
informed the committee that he is a past director of the Alaska                                                                 
Division of Banking, Securities and Corporations, having served                                                                 
from 1976 to 1980.  Since that time he has been in private practice                                                             
in Anchorage.  He noted that his law practice is in the area of                                                                 
business law, with a focus on securities and corporate and finance                                                              
law.  Mr. Brecht also noted that the committee should have a copy                                                               
of his written testimony, which he would paraphrase.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRECHT informed the committee that he had participated in the                                                               
development and review of proposals for a new Alaska corporate code                                                             
from the late-1970s to the 1980s.  That ten-year effort had                                                                     
resulted in a bill enacted by the legislature that became the                                                                   
Alaska Corporations Code, effective July 1, 1989.  He noted that                                                                
this was a comprehensive effort but said the needs of corporate law                                                             
do change with time, as exemplified in HB 357.  Mr. Brecht echoed                                                               
Mr. Elder's earlier comments that the Alaska Corporations Code                                                                  
provision dealing with the redemption of shares, AS 10.06.325, is                                                               
based on a similar provision of the California Corporation Code of                                                              
the time.  Since that time, however, the California law has                                                                     
changed, and thus HB 357 is before the committee to accomplish a                                                                
similar change under the Alaska Corporations Code.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRECHT told members that in his view, the proposed changes to                                                               
[AS 10.06.]325 do not lessen the provisions of the code protecting                                                              
shareholders of the corporation; however, they allow greater                                                                    
flexibility to a corporation's board of directors in addressing                                                                 
capital needs in present-day financial markets.  He concluded that                                                              
the Alaska Corporations Code is in need of amendment to recognize                                                               
the needs of modern corporations, while retaining shareholder                                                                   
protection already adopted in other commercial states.                                                                          
Specifically, the amendment is needed to incorporate changes to                                                                 
code provisions of California on which [AS 10.06.]325 is based.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0756                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOHN LOWBER, Chief Financial Officer, General Communication                                                                     
Incorporated (GCI), testified via teleconference from Anchorage.                                                                
He informed the committee that he had been serving in that capacity                                                             
for nearly 15 years.  He pointed out that GCI is headquartered and                                                              
incorporated in Alaska, and its subsidiaries are incorporated in                                                                
Alaska.  Therefore, his interest in HB 357 is to ensure that GCI                                                                
does not suffer any competitive disadvantages when compared to                                                                  
other peers.  Currently, the inability of the holder of preferred                                                               
stock to ask for redemption results in the company having to                                                                    
compensate for that inability in another manner, which indirectly                                                               
increases [the company's] cost of capital.  This would not be the                                                               
case if GCI were incorporated in some other state, including                                                                    
California.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOWBER told members he is interested in HB 357 so that the                                                                  
Alaska law stays current and does not discourage companies from                                                                 
incorporating in other states.  Therefore, it is important for the                                                              
legislature to adopt a law so that "we" are not disadvantaged in                                                                
raising capital.  Furthermore, Mr. Lowber believes that passage of                                                              
HB 357 would encourage business to continue to incorporate in                                                                   
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0880                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DAVID TAYLOR, Chief Financial Officer, Brady & Company, Inc.,                                                                   
testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  He informed the                                                                   
committee that he has worked in this capacity for the past 17                                                                   
years.  Brady & Company is a private-account Alaska corporation and                                                             
an Alaskan (indisc.) insurance brokerage.  Mr. Taylor said he                                                                   
supports HB 357 for the same reasons provided by the prior                                                                      
witnesses.  An Alaskan corporation should not have a competitive                                                                
disadvantage in attracting investment capital.  This bill helps to                                                              
strengthen Alaska's economy by promoting investment in Alaskan                                                                  
corporations, which would result in additional growth and                                                                       
profitability of those corporations, and which would, in turn,                                                                  
result in more tax revenue to the state treasury.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if anyone else wished to testify, then closed                                                               
public testimony.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that HB 357 had received a                                                                  
thorough hearing in the House Labor & Commerce Committee.  He                                                                   
believes it is essential that Alaska updates its corporate code.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0966                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG made a motion to move HB 357 out of                                                                     
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying zero                                                             
fiscal note.  There being no objection, HB 357 was moved from the                                                               
House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HB 378 - WORKERS COMP AND WORKER SAFETY                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced that the next order of business before the                                                              
committee would be HOUSE BILL NO. 378, "An Act eliminating certain                                                              
taxes under AS 21.09 on premiums from the sale of workers'                                                                      
compensation insurance; relating to the establishment, assessment,                                                              
collection, and accounting for service fees for state                                                                           
administration of workers' compensation and worker safety programs;                                                             
establishing civil penalties and sanctions for late payment or                                                                  
nonpayment of the service fee; and providing for an effective                                                                   
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT called upon Paul Grossi to present the bill, noting                                                               
that Dwight Perkins, Deputy Commissioner, was present as well.                                                                  
[The bill was sponsored by the House Rules Committee by request of                                                              
the Governor.  Before the committee was CSHB 378(L&C), Version                                                                  
GH2072\D.]                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1090                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PAUL GROSSI, Director, Division of Workers' Compensation,                                                                       
Department of Labor & Workforce Development, explained to the                                                                   
committee that first, HB 378 eliminates the premium tax on all                                                                  
workers' compensation insurance policies.  Second, it enacts a user                                                             
fee on all workers' compensation payments.  And third, it                                                                       
establishes a special account that those fees will go into, for the                                                             
funding of workers' compensation and workers' safety or OSHA                                                                    
[Occupational Safety and Health Administration].                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSSI discussed the present system.  All employers are                                                                     
required to cover workers' compensation in Alaska, which is done in                                                             
one of three ways:  by purchasing a workers' compensation insurance                                                             
policy on which there is a premium tax; by self-insuring, for                                                                   
larger entities, in which case no premium tax or fee is paid; or by                                                             
forming a JIA [Joint Insurance Arrangement], which applies to                                                                   
certain municipalities or public entities and for which there is no                                                             
premium tax.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSSI reported that this bill eliminates the premium tax that                                                              
some employers pay, and it enacts a user fee on all workers'                                                                    
compensation payments that will generate the same amount of money                                                               
that the premium tax did, approximately $3.5 million.  It phases in                                                             
self-insurers and those who aren't currently paying, and the fee                                                                
goes from 3.1 percent down to 2.6 percent as the self-insurers are                                                              
phased in.  People purchasing workers' compensation insurance                                                                   
policies will pay basically the same the first year, and then they                                                              
will slowly "phase in" as the pool gets larger and all the payers                                                               
participate.  Ultimately, all employers will pay at the same rate,                                                              
according to their claims experience:  the more injuries there are,                                                             
the more they would pay, and the fewer injuries there are, the less                                                             
they would pay.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSSI told members he believes it is a good policy, and it is                                                              
better than the current system.  It provides a greater incentive                                                                
for employers for provide safe workplaces, because the safer the                                                                
workplace, the fewer claims there will be and the less they will                                                                
pay.  It also allows all employers to pay for the use of the                                                                    
system, according to use and need.  Furthermore, it reduces the                                                                 
reliance on general funds for these two programs.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1305                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSSI noted that this proposal is unusual for the State of                                                                 
Alaska, but it is not out of the ordinary in other states.  He                                                                  
provided figures from a four-page document that outlines how other                                                              
states fund workers' compensation and other programs.  Alaska is                                                                
one of six states that funds workers' compensation on pure general                                                              
fund dollars; 34 states pay through some sort of special funding                                                                
mechanism; and ten states use a combination of general funds and a                                                              
special fund.  Of the 44 states with special accounts, 16 have                                                                  
funding mechanisms similar to the one proposed in this bill.  Mr.                                                               
Grossi noted that support for the bill isn't unanimous because                                                                  
entities that haven't had to pay anything will have to pay under                                                                
this system.  He emphasized the need to ask whether this [proposed                                                              
system] is fair, however, and whether it is a better system, which                                                              
he believes it is.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1418                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he would direct the same question to                                                               
Bob Lohr of the DCED if he were online.  He then stated his                                                                     
understanding that nothing in the bill mandates reduction of                                                                    
premiums.  He said one theory is that the risk will be spread to a                                                              
greater number of people by going to a fee on the claim, and                                                                    
therefore the premium tax will go down, particularly over the                                                                   
phaseout period.  He asked whether anything in this bill ensures                                                                
that the insurance company will pass that on to the business.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSSI answered that nothing in the bill forces that, but                                                                   
market forces probably would dictate that ultimately.  If it costs                                                              
less, the product can be provided more cheaply.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked whether that is because there are so                                                              
many workers' compensation underwriters working in Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSSI said there are about 30, to his belief.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG inquired about the market share of the top                                                              
companies.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROSSI suggested perhaps Mr. Lohr could answer that.  [However,                                                             
Mr. Lohr apparently was not on teleconference.]                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1518                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA HUFF TUCKNESS, Director, Governmental and Legislative                                                                   
Affairs, General Teamsters Local 959 State of Alaska, came forward                                                              
in support of the bill, noting that her organization represents                                                                 
employees in both the public and private sectors across the state.                                                              
Some employers have contributed "for eons" into this program, she                                                               
told the committee, whereas others have never contributed.  Her                                                                 
organization supports the concept of the bill, which they believe                                                               
will level the playing field and encourage a more proactive safety                                                              
program that should theoretically reduce the number of worker                                                                   
injuries.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1601                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DON ETHERIDGE, JR., Lobbyist for Alaska State AFL-CIO, came forward                                                             
in support of the bill.  He said the AFL-CIO sees this as a way to                                                              
improve worker safety and to keep the workers' compensation and                                                                 
OSHA programs from being killed off in the future legislative                                                                   
budget process, because this will fund itself.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1658                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN RITCHIE, Executive Director, Alaska Municipal League, came                                                                
forward.  He advised members that the Alaska Municipal League                                                                   
doesn't have a problem with many of the concepts of the bill, but                                                               
he pointed out that anytime that costs rise in municipal                                                                        
governments, that gets passed on to the people in the community.                                                                
He clarified that he wasn't saying that the bill does that unfairly                                                             
or that it is unjust.  If the whole playing field were leveled,                                                                 
that would be a different issue as far as revenues go.  But at this                                                             
point, that is a consideration for municipalities, which is why the                                                             
Alaska Municipal League board was concerned about the bill.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1684                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG alluded to a memorandum in committee                                                                    
packets [from Ms. Leandra Estep] and asked whether the definition                                                               
of "user fee" is still a concern.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. RITCHIE deferred to Ms. Estep.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
LEANDRA ESTEP, Workers' Compensation Claims Manager, Alaska                                                                     
Municipal League Joint Insurance Association, Inc., testified via                                                               
teleconference from Anchorage.  She indicated that changes made in                                                              
CSHB 378(L&C) seem to address previous concerns:  the subrogation                                                               
question was clearly answered, although the reinsurance was not                                                                 
necessarily addressed in any of those amendments.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked whether anyone else wished to testify, then                                                                 
closed public testimony.  He asked whether there was any committee                                                              
discussion; none was offered.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1818                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to move CSHB 378(L&C) from the                                                               
committee with individual recommendations and the attached fiscal                                                               
notes.  There being no objection, CSHB 378(L&C) was moved from the                                                              
House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HB 284 - UNINSURED MOTOR VEHICLE INSURANCE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1879                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced that the next order of business would be                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 284, "An Act relating to uninsured and underinsured                                                              
motor vehicle insurance."  [Before the committee was CSHB
284(L&C).]                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT reminded members that at the previous hearing, there                                                              
was some question over the word "disinterested," and one party had                                                              
opposed inclusion of that word.  Chairman Kott reported that the                                                                
individual who had testified from Northern Adjusters the previous                                                               
Friday, March 3, had called him this morning and they had spoken at                                                             
length.  Chairman Kott stated:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Essentially, the end result was they were satisfied with                                                                   
     the word "disinterested" in the bill, that it was a                                                                        
     version that was certainly a compromise between the                                                                        
     initial concept and where we're at today.  So, they were                                                                   
     comfortable with that, and they're forwarding a memo on                                                                    
     to me to that effect, that the person who made that                                                                        
     statement is now recanting it.  They only addition they                                                                    
     would like to see, ... as was mentioned, was an effective                                                                  
     date of 1 January 2001, which we heard the arguments for                                                                   
     that, and I think that's probably justifiable.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT called an at-ease at 3:05 p.m.  He called the meeting                                                             
back to order at 3:06 p.m.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1952                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT specified that he wouldn't offer what had been                                                             
distributed regarding "disinterested."  He offered an amendment to                                                              
make the bill effective as of 1/1/01.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked whether there was any objection to the                                                                      
conceptual amendment.  Hearing none, he announced that the                                                                      
amendment was adopted.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Representative Croft about dropping                                                                  
"disinterested."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said he would think about it some more and                                                                 
probably would bring it up later.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT called another at-ease at 3:07 p.m. and called the                                                                
meeting back to order at 3:08 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2003                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT made a motion to advance HB 284 [CSHB
284(L&C)], as amended, from the committee with individual                                                                       
recommendations and the attached zero fiscal note.  There being no                                                              
objection, it was so ordered and CSHB 284(JUD) was moved from the                                                               
House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HB 372 - COMMUNITY BASED SENTENCING                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced that the next order of business would be                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 372, "An Act relating to criminal sentencing and                                                                 
restitution."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2019                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of HB
372, first offered some history.  He explained that our inherited                                                               
legal system and almost all traditional societies have had, as a                                                                
primary goal, the propitiation or restoration of the victim to a                                                                
pre-offense condition.  One Norman king, however, at the time of                                                                
the Norman invasion, had decided that he owned everything and                                                                   
everybody in England; therefore, every offense against a person or                                                              
property was an offense against the king.  Thus began the                                                                       
continuing tradition where one pays a fine to the government even                                                               
though the offense was against an individual.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON noted that in the last 25 years, there has                                                                 
been a growing trend in this country to get back to the concept of                                                              
restorative justice.  Alaska's constitution is one of the few in                                                                
the nation that actually talks about it.  Furthermore, [Alaska's]                                                               
juvenile justice system is completely committed to this concept of                                                              
restorative justice and trying to get back to a pre-offense                                                                     
condition.  Representative Dyson indicated he'd been considering                                                                
this concept for three years, including a possible constitutional                                                               
amendment regarding the adult justice system that he had decided is                                                             
too big a "bite" at this time.  He said HB 372 is a relatively                                                                  
small step in that direction.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON explained that HB 372 just says that after a                                                               
case has been adjudicated and a decision has been made, the judge                                                               
may order, as part of the punishment, the restitution of the victim                                                             
or the community.  If negotiations between the offended party and                                                               
the perpetrator are successful, and if the judge concurs, then [the                                                             
judge] can give that negotiated settlement the force of law.                                                                    
Representative Dyson noted that several judges in the state are                                                                 
doing pioneer work in this area; he mentioned so-called circle                                                                  
sentencing and community-based sentencing, "where they work with                                                                
the community of the offender and/or offendee, and the victim and                                                               
the perpetrator, to negotiate terms that will try to restore the                                                                
victim and the community to the pre-offense condition."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON noted the presence of Robert Buttcane, who has                                                             
been overseeing this radical transformation in the juvenile justice                                                             
system with impressive results.  Pointing out that judges also have                                                             
been working on some of these issues, he indicated that the                                                                     
previous year he had brought Judge Barry Stewart (ph), a pioneer in                                                             
North America in the restorative justice concept, here from the                                                                 
Yukon Territory to talk about his work in Canada and other                                                                      
countries.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON related his own experience with perpetrators.                                                              
That they have been enabled to "restore" their victims - or to take                                                             
major steps towards that - has been a major step in their own                                                                   
reclamation; it provides a basis on which to begin to forgive                                                                   
themselves, to deal with the magnitude of their crimes, and to take                                                             
steps to have more productive lives.  Representative Dyson                                                                      
emphasized that this bill only deals with nonviolent property                                                                   
crimes and those sorts of things, not with violence.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2231                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN concurred that this has been extremely                                                                     
effective in the juvenile justice system, both here and Back East,                                                              
where he attended workshops.  In many cases, it was the young                                                                   
person's first offense.  He said he wonders whether the same effect                                                             
would be there for adults, however.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON responded that he had attended one national                                                                
restorative justice conference, and has been in contact with the                                                                
people who are working on this.  Some states such as Vermont have                                                               
done this totally, and the rate of recidivism is remarkably                                                                     
reduced, although arguably not all as a result of the restorative                                                               
justice concept.  As for adults that he has dealt with, who have                                                                
had to face their victims and the impacts on those victims, this                                                                
has been a major emotional event in their lives.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON recounted how he had sat at dinner twice in                                                                
Washington, D.C., with the mothers of murdered children and the men                                                             
who had murdered them; they had worked through, over the years,                                                                 
being reconciled, "and the perpetrator making what retribution                                                                  
could be."  He said he believes the evidence is absolutely with                                                                 
this concept.  He emphasized that this is totally voluntary.  It                                                                
gives the judges freedom to explore it, if the perpetrator is                                                                   
willing; he noted that historically, in other settings, many                                                                    
perpetrators have not been willing just because of the trauma of                                                                
having to face their victims.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2324                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked, "What about in situations of                                                                     
domestic violence or with children?"  Noting that she had just                                                                  
looked at the statutes, she pointed out that some offenses against                                                              
the family aren't exempted [in the bill].  Her concern arises                                                                   
because in those situations there is an inherently unequal                                                                      
bargaining position.  For instance, she has heard arguments against                                                             
having mediation in divorce cases for precisely that reason,                                                                    
because the person who has been the victim gives in a little bit                                                                
too easily.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON responded:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Once again, it's totally voluntary, ... and we're                                                                          
     trusting that the judge and/or the victims' advocates                                                                      
     will be there to support them, and that they not be                                                                        
     intimidated.  In eastern Oregon, where I've been around                                                                    
     some of this ... happening, it's been fascinating because                                                                  
     the victim will come to ... the sentencing panel and say,                                                                  
     "Here's what I need:  I need to know that this person is                                                                   
     never within ... 150 miles of me; I need to have                                                                           
     counseling; I need to have my doctor bills paid; I need                                                                    
     to have my property restored; I need to be recompensed                                                                     
     for the time I lost when I was in the hospital, and pain                                                                   
     and suffering."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     And ... the perpetrator will come and say, "Well, I                                                                        
     didn't realize ... how much trouble I caused.  I'll agree                                                                  
     to stay ... 150 miles away, but I do have a maiden aunt                                                                    
     ... in that country I'd like to be able to visit, and I'd                                                                  
     like to be able to negotiate [a] twice-a-year visit, you                                                                   
     know, whatever.  Here's what I can do to pay back the                                                                      
     doctor bills and fix [the] car."  And that's all                                                                           
     negotiated there.  But, indeed, the victim has to be able                                                                  
     to make their case for what they want."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2415                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT referred to the language that says "may, with                                                              
the consent of the offender, impose a sentence ...."  He asked                                                                  
whether it should say "with the consent of both the offender and                                                                
the victim."  He surmised that a victim just wouldn't agree to the                                                              
negotiated agreement.  He asked the reason for putting [the victim]                                                             
through the negotiating process if the person doesn't want to do                                                                
it.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON deferred to Peter Torkelson.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2439                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PETER TORKELSON, Staff to Representative Fred Dyson, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, answered that to his understanding from going over                                                                 
this with Legislative Legal Services personnel, it should be                                                                    
implied that the victim has to be willing to be involved in the                                                                 
negotiating process with the offender.  He indicated that is the                                                                
intention.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON added that both have to agree to the solution.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT concurred that clearly the negotiated                                                                      
agreement is between the offender and victim and requires their                                                                 
coming to terms.  However, it isn't as clear to him that the whole                                                              
process doesn't start without the victim's approval.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied, "If you're correct, we would be                                                                   
delighted to have that clarified."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-28, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 0011                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to language in the bill that read,                                                                
"or between the offender and the community if there is no victim."                                                              
He asked, "How would you determine the community?"                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON explained that if a school were vandalized or                                                              
if someone vandalized the parking meters, for instance, then the                                                                
designated representative of the community - the mayor or a                                                                     
designee, for example - would negotiate what it takes to propitiate                                                             
the community.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked about the potential effects of hearing                                                               
about a particular agreement on other potential perpetrators.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON answered that this certainly is aimed at                                                                   
repairing the damage to the victim.  It is still in the judge's                                                                 
purview, however, to ensure that the penalties are sufficient to                                                                
provide an adequate deterrent.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0079                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORKELSON pointed out that this can also be in addition to                                                                  
another type of sentence or a portion of a sentence.  Section 2 of                                                              
the bill, which amends the restitution section of law, is                                                                       
potentially in addition to jail time or another penalty that the                                                                
judge may feel is appropriate.  "It's not necessarily an easy way                                                               
out," he added.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked whether that would be understood.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON answered that he believes it is clear, but he                                                              
offered to research that.  He remarked that often the judge will                                                                
ask the perpetrator whether he or she wants to work on the                                                                      
restitution portion of the penalty.  When the judge give the power                                                              
of law to [the agreement] at the end, generally there will be                                                                   
alternative sanctions:  "You're going to pay this money, you're                                                                 
going to fix this, you're going to do these things to get your act                                                              
together, and so on and so forth; you fail, you go back and [do]                                                                
three-to-five [years in jail], and otherwise, you've got six                                                                    
months' jail time, a year and a half suspended, and all this work                                                               
to do to repair your victim."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0152                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked whether the victim can be a minor.  If so, who                                                              
would negotiate the settlement if the minor could not do it?                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied that he had assumed it would be the                                                                
minor in conjunction with the minor's guardian, whoever that is. or                                                             
whoever represents that person.  It could be the Office of Public                                                               
Advocacy, he suggested, if assistance were needed.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said that gets back to her concern with the                                                             
children involved in this.  She asked how it plays out and whether                                                              
Representative Dyson assumes there will be an advocate for the                                                                  
people there.  She noted that the legislation doesn't say that.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied, "Absolutely. ... They have a right to                                                             
be represented, and we have a ... responsibility to let them know                                                               
that they have that right, and provide it if they don't."  He                                                                   
emphasized that this regards sentencing.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA commented, "But that's usually what my                                                                  
clients really cared about."  She asked whether one idea was to                                                                 
have the public advocate, probably, in cases where the public                                                                   
defender is already representing a victim going into this.                                                                      
[Representative Dyson's response was indiscernible.]                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0228                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT remarked that this is a fascinating approach.                                                              
Noting that committee packets contained an Anchorage Daily News                                                                 
article, he mentioned that he had talked with Judge Wanamaker.  He                                                              
said there must be ways to create alternatives.  Calling attention                                                              
to Representative Dyson's statement that this is all voluntary, he                                                              
requested confirmation that the judge would have the power to                                                                   
decide not to use this approach, even if the case fit the statute                                                               
and the offender and victim were willing.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he believes so.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked, "If we're just giving them more tools                                                               
and the sentence can be out there as a hammer, ... what's the                                                                   
problem?  What have you heard?"                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said there is a signficant paradigm shift                                                                  
happening, and virtually all traditional societies try to get back                                                              
to a pre-offense condition.  The Tlingits had requested 300                                                                     
blankets in recompense after an elder had died, for example.                                                                    
Furthermore, Barry Stewart (ph) had related a fascinating story                                                                 
from New Zealand:  Elders from two villages met to decide the                                                                   
penalty for rape after the Crown had decided the guilt of the                                                                   
perpetrator; the elders had decided that because the woman was now                                                              
less desirable in marriage, the perpetrator had to make her so                                                                  
wealthy that she was at least as attractive in marriage as she                                                                  
would have been.  Representative Dyson emphasized the desire to try                                                             
to balance the scales and make the victim whole.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0330                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT, speaking in response to Representative                                                                    
Green's question, said Judge Stewart (ph) had described to him the                                                              
affected community rather than Anchorage.  If a school had been                                                                 
vandalized, he suggested, a PTA [Parent Teacher Association]                                                                    
representative might be involved, or a teacher and a student, or                                                                
members from the nearby area who felt less safe; they could talk                                                                
about the effects of [the vandalism] in terms of how they felt                                                                  
about the school, for example.  Representative Croft indicated that                                                             
in his limited experience in this, it is both the worst and the                                                                 
best for offenders to meet face-to-face with those they have hurt                                                               
and to discuss how that can be remedied.  "Even if the money they                                                               
end up getting fined is less, it's much more impactful than simply                                                              
a $300 fine to the court," he added.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON agreed, adding that people he knows who have                                                               
done "major time" say they have paid their debt to society by                                                                   
spending time in jail.  However, that doesn't help the victim, who                                                              
is still out there with losses such as hospital bills, as well as                                                               
terror that person may feel.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said he isn't sure that helps society much,                                                                
either.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0403                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ANNE CARPENETI, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division,                                                                  
Department of Law, came forward to testify on HB 372.  She told                                                                 
members that there are some really good ideas and thoughts behind                                                               
this bill, but the department has serious problems with it; she                                                                 
said she isn't sure whether there might be some common ground but                                                               
would set out the problems.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI informed members that in 1970 the Alaska Supreme                                                                  
Court had decided State v. Chaney, which set out several factors                                                                
that the court must consider when imposing sentence on a defendant;                                                             
embodied in Alaska's presumptive sentencing law in 1978, those                                                                  
include protection of the public, reaffirmation of societal norms,                                                              
condemnation of the criminal act and the seriousness of the                                                                     
offense.  This bill, however, allows a sentencing judge to ignore                                                               
most of those and to focus on restoration of the victim and                                                                     
community, and rehabilitation of the offender, which are important                                                              
goals but not the only goals that the judge should consider.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI pointed out that this applies to felony offenses.  In                                                             
1978, the state, through the legislature, adopted a presumptive                                                                 
sentencing scheme; the rationale behind it was a concern by the                                                                 
legislature that although it isn't even desirable to get sentences                                                              
of equal amounts of imprisonment around the state, or for other                                                                 
terms of sentencing, the belief at the time was that there was too                                                              
much disparity in sentences for robberies perpetrated in Fairbanks                                                              
versus Juneau, for example.  The idea was to look at what the                                                                   
defendant did and impose a term that gave the sentencing judge                                                                  
discretion to go up or down under certain circumstances, as set                                                                 
forth by the legislature; it evened out some of the "bumps."  Ms.                                                               
Carpeneti noted that there had been concern over discrimination in                                                              
sentencing and those sorts of issues.  That presumptive sentencing                                                              
scheme has guided Alaska's courts since 1978.  She stated:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     We've worked on ways to give the judge more discretion                                                                     
     for certain things, when you have factors in aggravation                                                                   
     and factors in mitigation, that the legislature                                                                            
     fine-tunes every year.  We add them when situations come                                                                   
     up that aren't allowed for in the statutes.  And this                                                                      
     bill really allows a defendant and a victim to negotiate                                                                   
     around presumptive sentencing, which has been our law for                                                                  
     many years and has worked out to be ... a good scheme.                                                                     
     So we have concerns about the way it kind of end-runs                                                                      
     presumptive sentencing.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI informed members that another concern, especially for                                                             
more serious offenses like felonies, is that a defendant and a                                                                  
victim aren't really in equal bargaining positions.  First, a                                                                   
defendant has a lawyer, but this bill doesn't provide a lawyer for                                                              
a victim.  Although the prosecutor acts as the spokesperson for the                                                             
victim and does his or her best to represent the victim's                                                                       
interests, [the Department of Law] also has at heart the interests                                                              
of the state as a whole and the people as a whole.  Second, in                                                                  
terms of covering felonies, many domestic violence crimes are not                                                               
in Chapter 41 of Title 11; burglary, criminal trespass, terroristic                                                             
threatening and arson could be domestic violence offenses that                                                                  
should not be negotiated because the victim and the defendant are                                                               
not in equal bargaining positions.  There are good reasons why our                                                              
law does not allow negotiation in terms of child custody and                                                                    
divorce, in cases where there has been domestic violence, Ms.                                                                   
Carpeneti said, because a power issue exists "no matter where you                                                               
are in terms of divorce and representation."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0608                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI also expressed concern about the practicalities of                                                                
how this would work.  Although the bill doesn't say so                                                                          
specifically, it is supposed to apply when a person has been                                                                    
convicted but not sentenced.  Suggesting that Representative                                                                    
Kerttula correct her if she were wrong, Ms. Carpeneti said she                                                                  
doubts that it would work in that case, because most defendants are                                                             
not going to enter a plea of guilty to a charge unless they know                                                                
what the sentence will be.  This would be pre-adjudication                                                                      
negotiations, which would raise all sorts of problems and concerns                                                              
of cross-examination of the victim, for example.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI cautioned that this will probably have the effect of                                                              
allowing defendants of means to get better sentences than those                                                                 
without means.  Furthermore, although the sponsor says it applies                                                               
only to nonviolent property crimes, the bill doesn't say that or                                                                
limit it to misdemeanors.  Ms. Carpeneti suggested perhaps these                                                                
provisions could be looked at in terms of improving the position of                                                             
the victim to make his or her case in front of the sentencing                                                                   
judge.  She continued:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     We do have victim impact statements.  Victims are                                                                          
     statutorily authorized to come into court and make an                                                                      
     oral statement.  It doesn't even have to be under oath;                                                                    
     it can be just a statement.  They can do a written                                                                         
     statement to the court.  They can talk to the Department                                                                   
     of Corrections when they're doing presentence reports.                                                                     
     There are a lot of provisions already in our statutes                                                                      
     that allow the victim to have a voice in what sentence is                                                                  
     imposed.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     We still have a civil compromise statute that this                                                                         
     committee looked at last week, in terms of ... our law                                                                     
     still allows certain crimes to be civilly compromised if                                                                   
     they are misdemeanors.  And I think this committee last                                                                    
     week fine-tuned that bill so it would not allow any sort                                                                   
     of civil compromise for ... any kind of domestic violence                                                                  
     case.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The court can invite comment by community                                                                                  
     representatives.  There is nothing in our law that                                                                         
     prohibits that approach.  We have concerns - the same as                                                                   
     Representative Green did - about if there is no victim in                                                                  
     the crime, who is going to speak for the community?  And                                                                   
     suppose there are problems in a diverse community with                                                                     
     different interests?                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     So those are our basic concerns with this bill. ... It                                                                     
     says it's voluntary, but it's not voluntary in the sense                                                                   
     that it does allow the court to ignore our jurisprudence                                                                   
     for the last 30 years and our sentencing laws that have                                                                    
     been working pretty well.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0751                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked what the Chaney factors are.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI noted that she had paraphrased them previously.  She                                                              
read from AS 12.55.005, which she said is basically a paraphrasing                                                              
as well [of the factors that the court shall consider in imposing                                                               
sentence]:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          (1) the seriousness of the defendant's present                                                                        
     offense in relation to other offenses;                                                                                     
          (2) the prior criminal history of the defendant and                                                                   
     the likelihood of rehabilitation;                                                                                          
          (3) the need to confine the defendant to prevent                                                                      
     further harm to the public;                                                                                                
          (4) the circumstances of the offense and the extent                                                                   
     to which the offense harmed the victim or endangered the                                                                   
     public safety or order;                                                                                                    
          (5) the effect of the sentence to be imposed in                                                                       
     deterring the defendant or other members of society from                                                                   
     future criminal conduct; and                                                                                               
          (6) the effect of the sentence to be imposed as a                                                                     
     community condemnation of the criminal act and as a                                                                        
     reaffirmation of societal norms.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0800                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated his understanding from Ms. Carpeneti's                                                              
testimony that in addition to those factors, the aggravating and                                                                
mitigating factors are changed every year or two.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI responded, "Well, you fine-tune them. ... You add                                                                 
aggravators and you add mitigators."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT noted that the legislature has the power to do                                                             
that.  He asked, "Do we have the power to change the Chaney                                                                     
factors, or are they constitutionally mandated?"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI said it was a decision of law.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT voiced his understanding that the legislature,                                                             
in this bill or any other, could change those if, as the policy                                                                 
making body for the state, the legislature decided to do so.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI said she believes so.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT explained his reason for asking.  This                                                                     
provides an option that changes the process, and that may change                                                                
the factors.  He doesn't know whether the sponsor wants to say that                                                             
the negotiated sentence shall be evaluated by the judge under the                                                               
Chaney factors or to ensure that it meets those elements, for                                                                   
example, or wants [the legislature] to change one or more of those                                                              
factors.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI noted that Article I, Section 12, of Alaska's                                                                     
constitution does set some parameters on sentencing; the Chaney                                                                 
case had elaborated on the constitutional provisions.  She added:                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     I think you could go in and modify [AS] 12.55.005 to                                                                       
     modify the goals of sentencing, if that was your desire.                                                                   
     One thing that I would say is that judges are doing this                                                                   
     now. ... There are judges in the Matanuska Valley who are                                                                  
     having "circle" sentences.  There's nothing in our law                                                                     
     that I'm aware of that prohibits this approach to                                                                          
     sentencing.  But our concern is if you state it in our                                                                     
     statutes the way this bill states it, you're going to be                                                                   
     allowing negotiations of sentences in cases where nobody                                                                   
     anticipates that it's a good idea to do so.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0917                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Ms. Carpeneti whether she was present                                                                
when the sponsor was discussing the fact that this would be                                                                     
voluntary, in addition to normal law, and that it just deals with                                                               
trying to make the victim whole without abrogating any other                                                                    
penalties that might be applied to the perpetrator.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI affirmed that she had heard that.  Although she                                                                   
thinks that is the intent, she said, she doesn't know whether this                                                              
bill provides for that.  Practically, she would have to give it                                                                 
some serious thought because she is wondering what defendant will                                                               
enter a plea to a charge without knowing what the sentence is going                                                             
to be.  To her understanding now, there usually is a ceiling on                                                                 
jail time and fines.  She added, "I don't know whether restitution                                                              
is part of it; it probably could be, or it may be. ... So this                                                                  
would not apply to many cases because so many of our cases ... are                                                              
resolved by plea negotiations."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0984                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT indicated he previously had heard concerns                                                                 
from the Public Defender Agency, where the youth court program                                                                  
originated, about that very thing, and yet the youth court later                                                                
became the biggest proponent of this.  These [agreements] were                                                                  
workable in the juvenile context, he said, which has unique issues;                                                             
it seems to him that they are workable here too.  Representative                                                                
Croft suggested that there could be a process to have that                                                                      
discussion in which, if the negotiation ended in something                                                                      
unacceptable, those admissions cannot be used in court.  Or, if the                                                             
negotiations broke down, the parties would be back where they                                                                   
started.  He asked, "Can't we do things like that, as we did in                                                                 
youth court?"                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI answered, "I think we can do that now."  She                                                                      
suggested looking at the victim impact statements to make sure that                                                             
they are broad enough to allow the victim to set forth all of his                                                               
or her concerns, and what would make him or her whole again.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT responded that there is a big difference                                                                   
between submitting a piece of paper to the judge, as a victim                                                                   
impact statement, and having the opportunity with other members of                                                              
the community and the offender to negotiate the consequences.  He                                                               
explained:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     I worry that we tend to look at it as "the way we have                                                                     
     always done it is the only way we can do it."  And I know                                                                  
     that that was the perspective of the [Public Defender                                                                      
     Agency].  Until they got in and involved, they were very,                                                                  
     very worried about the "traditional rights" approach that                                                                  
     was able to be solved in the youth court context.  And I                                                                   
     worry that we're taking that same "we can't do this                                                                        
     'cause that's not the way we do it" approach.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI commented that she has that feeling, too, when she                                                                
takes the position that she is taking.  However, she also knows                                                                 
that this is being done on an informal basis throughout the state,                                                              
where the defendant and victim agree and the judge concurs; there                                                               
are "circle" sentences where this had been done.  She indicated she                                                             
wasn't against the position that perhaps some procedures or                                                                     
statutes might need to be fine-tuned or changed to recognize this                                                               
type of practice.  In response to further questions, Ms. Carpeneti                                                              
clarified that she believes it is a good idea in certain cases.                                                                 
However, she doesn't think the state needs to adopt a statute that                                                              
authorizes a judge to ignore all the tradition of sentencing.                                                                   
Furthermore, she assumes that when judges have decided to do a                                                                  
"circle" sentence, which doesn't happen often, they have taken all                                                              
the statutory factors into account.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1204                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT referred to Ms. Carpeneti's earlier indication that                                                               
there may be common ground.  He asked, "Can we get from here to                                                                 
there?"                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI said she would be happy to work with the sponsor                                                                  
towards that goal.  "I think so," she added.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1240                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BLAIR McCUNE, Deputy Director, Public Defender Agency, Department                                                               
of Administration, testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  He                                                             
commented that this had been a really good discussion.  He then                                                                 
spoke in favor of the concept, agreeing there have been some good                                                               
results in juvenile cases; he mentioned that Robert Buttcane is an                                                              
expert on this type of process.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE also noted that although a little different, the same                                                                
process applies somewhat in the mental health courts that both the                                                              
state and the [federal government] have been working on, in                                                                     
Anchorage, to try to prevent recidivism in mental health cases; he                                                              
mentioned a special court to addresses those particular                                                                         
[sentences], and said there is quite a lot of victim involvement in                                                             
those cases as well.  He restated support for the concept.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE informed members that this would tend to have a fairly                                                               
high impact [on his agency] if done as a sentencing tool.  However,                                                             
there are other ways of doing it.  For example, in the juvenile                                                                 
system, restorative justice is implemented as a pretrial diversion                                                              
or a diversion arrangement; the charges are held over someone's                                                                 
head under certain conditions and then dismissed if the juvenile                                                                
fulfills the conditions that were agreed upon in [victim]-offender                                                              
mediation.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1365                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked what Mr. McCune believes the fiscal                                                               
impact will be [on the Public Defender Agency] if this is set up                                                                
full-scale.  She offered her opinion that it would be fairly                                                                    
substantial, although she hadn't seen a fiscal note from the                                                                    
agency.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE answered that the agency hadn't prepared a fiscal note                                                               
yet.  It is hard to say what the impact might be.  It is something                                                              
the judge has discretion about.  Also, a lot of offenses are taken                                                              
off the table, such as all of the offenses against a person, and it                                                             
involves consent of the offender, by the statute, and also must                                                                 
involve consent of the victim or there wouldn't be any negotiation.                                                             
Therefore, a fiscal note would be speculative.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE conveyed concern about the fiscal compact, however.  He                                                              
mentioned the drug court; he indicated his agency had determined                                                                
that if a drug court were set up, quite a lot more involvement                                                                  
would be needed from public defender attorneys than is required                                                                 
under the current system.  Mr. McCune expressed hope that the end                                                               
result would be less recidivism and crime, and less need for public                                                             
defenders in the long run, which certainly is the goal of this.                                                                 
Noting the lack of hard and fast data about the number of cases and                                                             
the agency's duties, however, he said his attitude is that this is                                                              
still in the learning stage.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1482                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked whether the state could, using the youth                                                             
court model, hold a presumptive statutory sentence over the                                                                     
perpetrator's head.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE suggested Representative Croft was referring to a                                                                    
pretrial diversion program.  He doesn't know whether it would have                                                              
to be in statute, he said.  The Department of Law would have to set                                                             
that up, as a policy matter, and to agree to administer it and to                                                               
screen cases.  Recalling pretrial diversion in the late 1970s,                                                                  
disbanded around 1980, he said there really hasn't been a formal                                                                
pretrial diversion "setup" since then.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT responded that he doesn't know that it would                                                               
have to be a pretrial [diversion] or set up like the youth court                                                                
model, however, because within the agreed-upon sentence it could                                                                
say that there is three years' [jail time] suspended, for example,                                                              
conditioned upon meeting all the other conditions imposed.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE agreed that it can be done in a sentencing situation and                                                             
doesn't have to be a pretrial diversion.  The one "circle"                                                                      
sentencing case he had just read about in the paper was a DWI                                                                   
[driving while intoxicated] sentencing case that wasn't handled                                                                 
through his agency.  The defendant did plead "no contest" to the                                                                
DWI, Mr. McCune noted, and the court set about doing a sentence                                                                 
with the input of community representatives, the victim, the police                                                             
officer and others involved.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1650                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON offered closing remarks.  He told members he                                                               
believes this will save millions of dollars because prisoners who                                                               
are not a threat to public safety won't be in "hard cells" in                                                                   
Arizona, for example, but will be out working to repay their                                                                    
victims and to help support their families, although they may,                                                                  
indeed, be lodged at a community facility, wearing a bracelet and                                                               
urinating in a bottle daily.  To his understanding, no present                                                                  
sentencing laws and guidelines are removed by this.  It only adds                                                               
another factor to the sentencing guidelines and goals regarding                                                                 
negotiated propitiation of the victim.  Suggesting this concept                                                                 
goes back to the Old Testament, he posed as example:                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Eric kills my cow and does it accidentally, he replaces                                                                    
     my cow.  If he did it on purpose, he has to replace two                                                                    
     cows. ... That gives me a cow back and him an additional                                                                   
     penalty.  Now our system gives both cows to the                                                                            
     government and leaves the victim without a cow. ... It's                                                                   
     utterly absurd. ... What we're trying to do is getting                                                                     
     back to fixing the harm, repairing the harm.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1769                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORKELSON spoke up to add clarification.  On page 1, lines 8                                                                
and 9, regarding presumptive sentencing, it says "if that sentence                                                              
otherwise complies with this chapter."  He said that is there with                                                              
the goal of not totally unraveling the presumptive sentencing                                                                   
guidelines and established traditions.  In addition, Section 3 is                                                               
just "one of 17 other mitigating factors" that could be used by a                                                               
court in figuring out what the correct presumptive term might be;                                                               
it isn't undoing the presumptive term.  He remarked, "So I'm not                                                                
certain that we're just flushing the last 30 years; that's                                                                      
certainly not the intent when we put it together."  As for concern                                                              
expressed [by Ms. Carpeneti] about who would want to go into a                                                                  
situation where the potential outcome is known, Mr. Torkelson                                                                   
reported that in Vermont one agrees to plead guilty, for example,                                                               
and then gets the choice of 90 days in jail or taking whatever                                                                  
sentence is negotiated by the "community reparative board."  He                                                                 
concluded that there are ways around some of those concerns as                                                                  
well.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1882                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON conveyed that he appreciates Representative                                                                
Kerttula's concern, but if the harm caused were ruining someone's                                                               
prized old car, for example, the reparation would be to restore it.                                                             
Doctor bills or counseling bills are quantifiable, he noted.  That                                                              
is the genius of the reparative model.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORKELSON referred to testimony about the Chaney provisions set                                                             
forth by the supreme court, stated in AS 12.55.005.  He told                                                                    
members this adds AS 12.55.011 below that, and doesn't negate or                                                                
repeal those [factors].  It adds one more thing that the court may                                                              
consider after - presumably - it has complied with [AS 12.55.]005                                                               
in looking at all these other factors.  He said that is the intent.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1990                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT suggested that clarifying Section 1 by                                                                      
specifically adding in Chaney factors as goals wouldn't be a                                                                    
problem, then, as it is the sponsor's intent to ensure that the                                                                 
goals under Chaney still exist.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied, "Absolutely."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2026                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT referred to the points made by Ms. Carpeneti                                                               
that some domestic violence crimes aren't under AS 11.41, and that                                                              
negotiations between perpetrators and victims are inherently                                                                    
difficult because of the perpetrator's power over the victim.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORKELSON responded by mentioning Representative Dyson's                                                                    
intention of "no violence, no crimes against the person."  He                                                                   
stated, "[AS] 11.41 is the standard crime against the persons that                                                              
we use in ... other factors."  Noting that some felonies aren't in                                                              
AS 11.41, Mr. Torkelson said a domestic violence situation is under                                                             
AS 11.41, to his belief, if there is any form of battery or                                                                     
assault.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA pointed out, however, that domestic                                                                     
violence crimes don't always get charged that way.  Trespass is a                                                               
classic example; there often is domestic violence at the root of                                                                
it, but the crime charged is trespass.  "So you're probably at                                                                  
least going to have to consider ... what the facts of the case                                                                  
are," she said.  She added about the legislation, "I really think                                                               
it's well meaning, but it's just going to be an incredible lot of                                                               
work to make a change like this, to be sure that you don't cause                                                                
problems with inequality in sentencing, and that's one of them."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON conveyed the desire for consistency but not                                                                
"foolish consistency."  Particularly in rural Alaska, he noted,                                                                 
there is real pressure to have culturally appropriate sentencing.                                                               
In northern Canada, much of the restorative justice is working with                                                             
in rural areas with the First Nations people, with great success;                                                               
having the perpetrator deal with the elders of the community and                                                                
the shame brought upon them, and making it right, follows a                                                                     
cultural tradition perhaps several thousand years old.  Although it                                                             
is working well there, Representative Dyson said he doesn't think                                                               
the same kind of consistency should be enforced in downtown Juneau                                                              
or Palmer, for example.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2278                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT applauded the idea of the bill, which he said                                                                     
deserves the greatest scrutiny that the committee can give it.  He                                                              
announced that HB 372 would be held over.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HJR 35 - REPEAL BRADY ACT                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced that the final order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 35, relating to requesting the United                                                                
States Congress to repeal the "Brady Handgun Protection Act".                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2294                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RYNNIEVA MOSS, Staff to Representative John Coghill, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, introduced HJR 35 on behalf of the sponsor.  She                                                                   
explained the HJR 35 requests the United States Congress to repeal                                                              
the "Brady Handgun Protection Act".  Representative Coghill had                                                                 
introduced HJR 35 after reading about the direction of                                                                          
congressional actions on gun controls.  He felt it appeared that                                                                
Congress was giving up on the Second Amendment.  In the past few                                                                
years, Congress has been reviewing legislation that would change                                                                
how gun laws are handled by disallowing civil suits against gun                                                                 
manufacturers and disallowing retention of criminal search records                                                              
of law-abiding citizens.  Representative Coghill feels that                                                                     
Congress is going in the wrong direction to restore the ability of                                                              
individuals to protect themselves and their families.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS told members that Representative Coghill's real question                                                               
is who the Brady Act protects.  She said it already is known that                                                               
illegal weapons are prized commodities that usually [result in]                                                                 
burglary or death, and that Switzerland's practice of requiring                                                                 
citizens to be armed can reduce crime.  Criminals don't buy                                                                     
firearms through legal means, and when criminals do attempt to                                                                  
purchase firearms contrary to the Brady Act, the law is not                                                                     
enforced by the administration.  One of the big criticisms now is                                                               
that there are stringent federal laws against criminals having                                                                  
guns, but those laws are not being enforced.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-29, SIDE A                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS concluded by saying that if the Brady Act is not enforced,                                                             
then there really is no compelling interest on the part of the                                                                  
federal government to invade the privacy of law-abiding citizens.                                                               
restricting their ability to protect themselves and their families                                                              
against criminals, and, for that matter, their ability to provide                                                               
food for their families.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced that HJR 35 would be held over.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 4:07 p.m.                                                                 

Document Name Date/Time Subjects